Originea numelui de familie după recensământ din 1774

[Corneliu]

Acest subiect își are că scop clarificarea originii numelor de familii din 1774 ( sau cum unele porecle au adus mai apoi la formarea unor nume de familii). După analiza personală am observat că persoanele recenzate se împărțea în cele ce aveau nume de familie ( am observat că cuvântul de familie era scris cu literă inițială majusculă fără virgulă după prenume) și în cele ce nu aveau un nume de familie specific. Cel mai interesant sunt analizele privitor persoanele cărora le erau adăugate niște termeni specifici lor din care putem afla anumite informații, de exemplu rudenia cu cineva (exemplu: Carp sîn Vlad - adică Carp fiul lui Vlad). Sau originea regională ( Ion, muntean - adică Ioan locuitor din Muntenia sau din regiune muntoasă). Sau ocupația ( Vasile, cioban - adică Vasile practica ciobănitul). Etc

Ca primă chestiune de analiză aș propune clarificarea originii referitoare la un locuitor din satul Văratic Ținutul Hotin,
" Opria, bîrsan "

Eu presupun că Opria își are origini din regiunea Bîrsei (din Carpați) deoarece acesta nu era un nume de familie diminutiv, căci era scris cu virgulă și literă mică, ce redă o info. Nu putea să fie ceva referitor la ocupație, deci cel mai probabil regional.
Acesta e doar opinia mea, aștept să văd și observațiile dumneavoastră.

[Parcalab]

You need to read the original documents, the original source, not translations. The authors of this book, considered words as surnames or not surnames at their personal discretion.

Many positions, professions, indicated in this book, as I later saw in the census of 1824 in Khotyn district, and in the census of 1835 throughout Bessarabia became surnames.

And just the names of people became surnames. For example, the village Nagoriani of Khotyn district, from the names of tsarans from 1774 - Ivan, Roman, Osip, formed quite Russian surnames Ivanov, Romanov, Osipov in 1824, on which you can not say that they are Moldavians or Ukrainians.

[bendorna]

That's a good point. I have been trying to seek for the original documents myself.

The archive material related to it is partially digitalised here  http://rgada.info/poisk/index.php?fund_number=293&fund_name=&list_number=&list_name=&Sk=30 but unfortunately the actual lists are not included.

Side question, does anyone knows what the word "pas" / "пас" means that comes after some of the names?

[andreicucuruz]

You need to read the original documents, the original source, not translations. The authors of this book, considered words as surnames or not surnames at their personal discretion.

@Parcalab Do you happen to have some examples of the original census? Also, is there a straightforward way to ask for copies of some villages from the archive or, hopefully, are the lists online?

As you say, some of the names in the transcription might have been wrongly interpreted, it would be fantastic to have the original as well.

[andreicucuruz]

Side question, does anyone knows what the word "pas" / "пас" means that comes after some of the names?

pas(nic)

Scriban

1) pásnic m. (d. vsl. pasti, a paște adică ,,supraveghetor de pășune"). Nord. Rar. Ajutor de primar rural și une-orĭ și perceptor (care judeca și micĭ neînțelegerĭ). V. vornic, vătăman, paznic.

sursa: Scriban (1939) adăugată de LauraGellner (dexonline.ro)

[bendorna]

OK merci. Credeam ca e un adverb, de genul "tij" sau "ot tam"

[Lutic]

" Opria, bîrsan "

Prin părțile Valahiei Oprea era botezat cel pe care părinții îl doreau să fie ultimul copil, când doreau să se OPREAscă din a face copii. Că nu de multe ori nu prea le ieșea deja e alta poveste.

[andreicucuruz]

[...]
And just the names of people became surnames. For example, the village Nagoriani of Khotyn district, from the names of tsarans from 1774 - Ivan, Roman, Osip, formed quite Russian surnames Ivanov, Romanov, Osipov in 1824, on which you can not say that they are Moldavians or Ukrainians.

While this can be true (and the people with the surname Ivanov, Romanov, Osipov in 1824 to be the descendents of Ivan, Roman and Osip from 1774), this is definitely not the only theory. At the end of the 18th century, surnames were not at all a common thing in the area hence one Dumitru Ivanov from 1824 could very well be the son of one Ivan that has nothing to do with the one registered in 1774. From my personal research, at least in the Moldova that is east of the Prut, the surname as a general trend (of course there are exceptions usually in the upper social classes) evolved and stabilized much later.

[Parcalab]

[...]
And just the names of people became surnames. For example, the village Nagoriani of Khotyn district, from the names of tsarans from 1774 - Ivan, Roman, Osip, formed quite Russian surnames Ivanov, Romanov, Osipov in 1824, on which you can not say that they are Moldavians or Ukrainians.

While this can be true (and the people with the surname Ivanov, Romanov, Osipov in 1824 to be the descendents of Ivan, Roman and Osip from 1774), this is definitely not the only theory. At the end of the 18th century, surnames were not at all a common thing in the area hence one Dumitru Ivanov from 1824 could very well be the son of one Ivan that has nothing to do with the one registered in 1774. From my personal research, at least in the Moldova that is east of the Prut, the surname as a general trend (of course there are exceptions usually in the upper social classes) evolved and stabilized much later.

According to the censuses of 1824 and 1835, the oldest ancestor of the surname Ivanov was named Ivan. The surname Romanov was called Roman. And so on.

Probably before 1812 these people had no surnames. And when Russia after 1812 began to take censuses and tax people, Russian officials came up with these surnames.

These Ivanov, Romanov, Osipov and others may be from the same family, but now have different surnames. Ivan, Roman, Osipo could have been brothers in that village. You can confirm or deny this with Y-DNA.

[andreicucuruz]

According to the censuses of 1824 and 1835, the oldest ancestor of the surname Ivanov was named Ivan. The surname Romanov was called Roman. And so on.

Probably before 1812 these people had no surnames. And when Russia after 1812 began to take censuses and tax people, Russian officials came up with these surnames.

These Ivanov, Romanov, Osipov and others may be from the same family, but now have different surnames. Ivan, Roman, Osipo could have been brothers in that village. You can confirm or deny this with Y-DNA.

Yes, that is what I was trying to say. That the Russian census from 1774 didn't impose surnames - and it is very likely that not all of the people living in 1824/1835 with the surnames ending in +ov are the descendents of the people registered in 1774.

@Parcalab Can you please provide us with more information on the available censuses for the region that is now the Republic of Moldova and where we might be able to find them (e.g. like the censuses you have mentioned already 1824/1835? Thank you.

[Corneliu]

Recensământele și alte documente interesante le puteți găsi pe family search:
1)Pentru Basarabia la general:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=M6CT-LPN%3A264175701%2C264722601%3Fcc%3D1985804
2) Pentru Basarabia gubernială (colonii):
https://www.familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=M6CT-5WL%3A264175701%2C264211401%3Fcc%3D1985804
3)
Iar pentru a ușura idintificarea documentelor necesare folosiți catalogul de pe Arhiva Națională a Moldovei:
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fdrive.google.com%2Ffile%2Fd%2F1il3qOW9-_5UOOmHb4yoHUEOV7jcKEVZ4%2Fview%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0ldXdFbN2LCLcQL2qZg3y5MrZWla9SJ1_zPPAncAC1gTcaxRng2kmKX6E&h=AT03rpqk5Sp-YgzoypG3cFbB5oS3Ee56wdOkNKrO0j7LbdT4YRfqJzczafnkloajqm6scQHMWV1qVmAcjt7XBaSkbiYlV2yuGzp4gOqL2cH6Verwsg4VkbgP_Wb5ioH7swoo&__tn__=-UK

[baurceanu]

Acest subiect își are că scop clarificarea originii numelor de familii din 1774 ( sau cum unele porecle au adus mai apoi la formarea unor nume de familii). După analiza personală am observat că persoanele recenzate se împărțea în cele ce aveau nume de familie ( am observat că cuvântul de familie era scris cu literă inițială majusculă fără virgulă după prenume) și în cele ce nu aveau un nume de familie specific. Cel mai interesant sunt analizele privitor persoanele cărora le erau adăugate niște termeni specifici lor din care putem afla anumite informații, de exemplu rudenia cu cineva (exemplu: Carp sîn Vlad - adică Carp fiul lui Vlad). Sau originea regională ( Ion, muntean - adică Ioan locuitor din Muntenia sau din regiune muntoasă). Sau ocupația ( Vasile, cioban - adică Vasile practica ciobănitul). Etc

...

Hi, Dmitriev's relevant comments can be found in the introduction on pages 10-11 (6 in pdf) of the first book (volume VII part 1-a)