This time I am looking for the family of Mandita Teodorescu.
I think Mandita is the older sister of Eleonora (who I posted about earlier at https://forum.genealogica.ro/index.php?topic=540.0 (https://forum.genealogica.ro/index.php?topic=540.0) and the daughter of the priest Gheorge Teodorescu and Zoia Stanciu. I think Mandita was probably born in about 1855 give or take 10 years or so. Her parents lived in Galati.
I think Mandita married M Penescu, probably in about 1875. They had at least two children, with one daughter being named Zoe.
This family may have moved to Bucharest in 1901 and later to Constanta.
I would very much appreciate any help in locating the vital records for this family.
Hello again
I attach the marriage certificate of Smaranda (Măndița) Theodorescu and Mihaiu Penescu
date: 1 February 1876, 4 pm
Husband: Mihaiu Penescu, orthodox, telegraph operator (telegrafistǔ), 24, born in Brăila, resident of Galatzi, minor son of orthodox priest Ioanu Penescu, 60, resident of Brăila, and Vasilica Penescu. The parents consented in a document registered at the Brăila Court at no. 303/15 Jan 1876. Mihaiu Penescu was baptised at St. Spiridon church in Brăila in 1851.
Wife: Smaranda Theodorescu, orthodox, housekeeper (menajul casei), 19, born in Galatz, daughter of priest Gheorghe Theodorescu, orthodox, 45, and Zoița.
They have a dowry sheet registered at the Court of Galați at no. 12/29 January 1876
Witness 1: Constandin Petrescu, orthodox, 24, clerk, Popa Stamate str. 31
Witness 2: Grigori Petrescu, orthodox, 28, living with the husband
Witness 3: Vasile Băniceanu(?), orthodox, clerk (amploiant), 25, Popa Stamati str. 30
Witness 4: Ioanu Fitocu (?), orthodox, cantor (psalt), 48, St Vineri str. 43
Wow again! Thank you so much.
After you provided the records for Eleonora's family, I suspected that the witness for Eleonora's marriage and the witness for Sabine's birth was Smaranda/Mandita's husband, and now you have confirmed that belief with this marriage record.
Does this marriage record state the name of the church in Galati where Smaranda and Mihaiu were married?
And who was the priest for this marriage? Was it Smaranda's father, Gheorghe Theodorescu?
You're very welcome! happy to help
As these are secular records, they don't mention the name of the church or priest. The civil registration usually took place before the religious ceremony.
However, the document does mention that Gheorghe Theodorescu was present. In fact, out of all four parents, he was the only one present and his signature is the third one just below the groom's and the bride's.
Many thanks for that.
How do I go about looking for the death records for Smaranda and Mihaiu?
I think Smaranda possibly died before 1919, and her husband Mihaiu probably died some time between 1904 and 1920.
Can you share a bit more info regarding their later life? you mentioned they may have moved to Bucharest and later to Constanța?
For now, please see attached the birth and death certificate of a child of theirs:
date: 17 Feb 1877, 10 am
birth: 15 Feb 1877, 10:40 pm (written as 40 "moments")
name: Cicerone
place: Galatz (Galați), Mavramol str., 2nd Block
father: Mihail Penescu, orthodox, Romanian, 27, clerk (funcționar)
mother: Smaranda Penescu, legitimate wife,
Witness 1: Eronim Scurtu, 31, clerk, friend of the father
Witness 2: Ioan Radicescu, 27, clerk, friend of the father
date: 27 December 1898, 11 am
death: 26 December 1898, 10 am
deceased: Cicerone Mihail Penescu, orthodox, 22, student
father: Mihail Penescu, clerk
mother: Smaranda
place of death: house on Mauromol str., no number, 2nd District (despărțitura)
Witness 1: Ion Busovici(?), 33, clerk, Balaban str. 25, 3rd District
Witness 2: Gheorghe Corcioveiǔ, 41, ploughman (plugar), Losoveni str., no number, 5th District
Verifying Doctor (verificator): Dimitrie Vizzu
Civil registry officer: Panaite D. Petrovicǐ, officer for Galați 2nd District
I don't really know much about the family other than short comments in some letters, which have been translated from Romanian to English (and often via French or another intermediary language). A lot of these letters do not even have dates and rarely have addresses.
One comment was translated as "Penescu has moved to the Constanta port because he got a job there in Dobrogea, on the Black Sea, as you know." This comment was written by Traian Teodorescu, who is Smaranda's younger brother. I think this letter was written in about 1904, and is probably referring to Mihaiu Penescu, the husband of Smaranda.
Another letter, this time written by Eleonora Teodorescu Ionescu, stated "We have no one here, no parents, my sister died before the war, always a heart disease, my brother Trajan has not leave the bed for a year, he has a heart disease and others, he does not have a long time." This letter was written in 1920, and I think Eleonora was referring to her sister Smaranda, and that Smaranda may have died prior to WW1.
I have found it really difficult to find vital records and other supporting documentation for this family. So I really appreciate your help and also the help from Andrei C.
Relevant data may be found in the Constanța civil records. The online collection is temporarily offline, but it should be back up soon.
@Andrei Jipa, check out these interesting tidbits on this particular family branch (descendants of Gheorghe Teodorescu):
- https://ziarullumina.ro/actualitate-religioasa/documentar/fondatorul-australiei-moderne-isi-are-radacinile-la-galati-6846.html
- https://povestidangheorghe.blogspot.com/2011/01/theodore-facut-aceasta-tara.html
Wow, what a history there! Thank you for sharing, it's very unexpected and it's all so fascinating! and makes me even more interested now
@RPS in case you are wondering about the name Mihai/Mihail/Mihaiu. The final 'u', or sometimes 'ǔ' is a silent letter no longer used in contemporary spelling, so it was also pronounced Mihai. The final 'l' is not silent though, and 'Mihail' is just a variation of the same name.
The obituary of Smaranda M. Penescu, appeared in 'Universul' on Wednesday 3 December 1914:
The saddened Mihail Penescu, husband, engineer Teodorescu brother, second lieutenant Penescu nephew or grandson (same word in Romanian, 'nepot'), have the pain to announce the death of their most beloved
Smaranda M. Penescu
deceased suddenly on 1 December this year. The funeral will take place today, Tuesday 2 December at 2:30 pm at the home of the deceased, Carol street 108, from where the procession will proceed to the city cemetery.
This is in lieu of any other announcement.
Constanța, December 1914
According to another obituary, Mihail Penescu might have remarried and his next wife passed away on 30 January 1916. But it may also be another Mihail Penescu, as his mother's name doesn't seem to match. The obituary mentions:
Elisa M. Penescu, b. Ioho, 18 years old - deceased after a long and grievous suffering, to be buried in the Catholic cemetery Bellu in Bucharest. Her home was in Apei Minerale str. 32
Mihail Penescu - husband
Robert Ioho - father
Ana Ioho - mother
Frantz Ioho - brother
Maria Penescu, Constanța - mother-in-law
cpt. Mihăilescu - brother-in-law
Ioan N. Polihroniade - uncle
EDIT: I might have interpreted this wrong, and Constanța could also be the name of a sister-in-law of Elisa, as the text says 'cumnați', the plural of siblings-in-law.
Thank you both again! It is really good to see some facts.
I am not so sure whether Mihaiu/Mihail/Mihai did remarry to Elisa in ~1915, as he would have been about 65, and Elisa would have only been about 17. But anything is possible.
When I read through Smaranda's 1914 death notice, it did not refer to any children. Given no children were mentioned, do you think it is likely that there were no children that outlived Smaranda? Or was it common to not mention children's names?
Also, do the Romanian civil death records ever include the children's names?
I haven't noticed any tendency to exclude the children of the deceased from obituaries and I've certainly seen children mentioned quite often. No surviving children would probably be the best simple assumption. However, I could imagine other explanations: estranged, domiciled abroad, disinherited, abandoned or given for adoption, maybe even some financial consideration to keep the obituary short (?). Just speculation; the civil records can confirm.
Regarding death records: occasionally, the name of one or two children may appear as witnesses. But there isn't any consistent practice of listing the names of all children.
And here is the death certificate of Smaranda M. Penescu, confirming the info in the obituary.
date: 2 December 1914, 12:00
death: 1 Decemer 1914, 1 am
place: her house in Carol str. No. 108, Constanța
deceased: Smaranda M. Penescu, 57, housewife, born in Galați, Covurlui county, married to Mr. Mihail Penescu, daughter of Priest (Preotu) Teodorescu, deceased, and of Maria
verifier doctor: Alexandru Pilescu
witness 1: Ștefan Penescu, 25, in the military (second lieutenant), domiciled in Constanța, Carol str. No. 108, grandson/nephew of the deceased
witness 2: Matache Haralambie, 35, mechanic, from Constanța, Sabinelor str. 27
Many thanks again Andrei J.
I have looked at the dates to try and work out whether Stefan is the grandson or nephew of Smaranda.
Given Smaranda was born in about 1857, she married Mihaiu Penescu in February 1876, then gave birth to presumably their first son in February 1877, and that Stefan was 25 years old in 1914 giving him a year of birth of about 1889, I think it is unlikely Smaranda was the grandmother of Stefan. I think it is more likely that Stefan was the nephew of Mihaiu Penescu, and most likely the son of Mihaiu's brother (rather than a sister). I'm interested in your thoughts.
I think you are right! I had also done the math and reached the same conclusion.
Smaranda was c. 32 at the birth of Stefan. Assuming Stefan was the son of Smaranda's son, let's call him Penescu Jr. Then Penescu Jr. would need to be c. 18 at the birth of Stefan, and Smaranda must have had Penescu Jr. at c. 14, in 1871, before the wedding with Mihail Penescu in 1876. While children being born before marriage is not unheard of, the marriage usually occurs within a few months. Circa 4-5 years wait is very unlikely.
While not totally impossible, each of these situations is highly unlikely on its own: a man having a son at 18, a woman at 14, a child outside wedlock being recognised five years later. Even assuming some age inaccuracies in the registry, i also think it's almost certain that Stefan was her nephew.
I'll look for more records to confirm
That's interesting. I had not thought about the possibility of a father later "claiming" their child born outside of wedlock. I had assumed that as the birth record for Cicerone (Smaranda's son) in 1877 stated that Smaranda was the "legitimate" wife of Mihaiu Penescu, that it meant she had not had prior children.
I recently found that Mihaiu Penescu (husband of Smaranda) moved to Ismail in Bessarabia (which I think may now be Izmail in Ukraine) in about 1922, and he may have died there. Where would these records be kept? Would Romania or Ukraine keep them?